HBS Guru Sandy Kreisberg and Poets&Quants Founder & Editor John A. Byrne

He’s an equity analyst at a well-known hedge fund who looks for companies his fund could short, but he also has worked in consulting for a top strategy consulting shop and a major brandname corporation. With a 760 GMAT and a 3.8 grade point average at the University of Michigan, this 27-year-old professional hopes to get an MBA to eventually start his own hedge fund.

She’s a graduate of Oxford University who works for a bulge bracket American bank in London. She sings in a highly respect choir, is active in a local taekwondo club and also tutors underprivileged. Now she’s aiming her sights at a prestige MBA program.

This 25-year-old Indian male graduated from the Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi and works as a management consultant at Bain, gaining two promotions in three years. He has acted and directed in over ten plays, including three with a professional theater group. His goal is to earn a to–flight MBA, return to Bain in a managerial role, and eventually launch a beverage brand that makes nutritious drinks for rural Indians.

What these three MBA candidates and more share in common is the desire to get through the door of a highly selective MBA program at one of the world’s very best business schools. Do they have a chance?

Sanford “Sandy” Kreisberg, founder of MBA admissions consulting firm HBSGuru.com, is back to analyze these and a few other profiles of actual MBA applicants who have shared their vital statistics, work backgrounds, and career goals with Poets&Quants.

As usual, Kreisberg handicaps each potential applicant’s odds of getting into a top-ranked business school. If you include your own stats and characteristics in the comments, we’ll pick a few more and have Kreisberg assess your chances in a follow-up feature to be published shortly. (Please add your age and be clear on the sequence of your jobs in relaying work experience. Make sure you let us know your current job.)

White Male Hedge Funder

760 GMAT
3.8 GPA
Undergraduate degree in business from the University of Michigan’s Ross School of Business
Work experience includes two years in strategy consulting (think Monitor/LEK/Booz); a year and one-half in global corporate strategy (think Coca-Cola/PepsiCo/Disney) and two years as an equity analyst for a multi-billion dollar hedge fund whose founder often appears on Bloomberg and CNBC
Extracurricular involvement as a mentor to an inner-city teenager; also co-organized and managed a standup comedy show to raise money for cancer reserach while in college
Goal: To start his own hedge fund
27-year-old white male

Odds of Success:

Stanford: 20%
Harvard: 40%
Wharton: 50%
Columbia: 50%+
NYU: 50%+

Sandy’s Analysis: You’re a white ace, as we used to say. You are a white male who went to Michigan, which is a good place for guys who are smart but not super smart. You got a 3.8, a 760 GMAT and you’ve had quite the career. You’ve worked for some very good companies and now work for a hedge fund where you go around looking for sick companies, particlarly secretly sick companies, that can be shorted. That’s quite a line of work.

I am of the belief that if you are a white male and in banking, finance, private equity, venture capital or hedge funds, you really should apply to Harvard Business School in round one. I believe this based on what I’ve heard and results I’ve seen with clients over the years. Harvard has a bucket for guys like you and when the bucket is filled, they close the bucket and they don’t care what comes in later. It’s not like they say, ‘Oh, we have a lot of people here. Let’s take half of them and see what comes in during round two.’ They eat their full and it’s over.

At Harvard, you’re competing with people who go to schools like Michigan and schools that are better than Michigan. You also are competing with people who also have 760 GMATs and may have a cleaner work history. Their first job could be with Goldman Sachs and then a second job at a premium feeder private equity firm. The question is how many of those candidates are there and are there enough of them who are better than you? Harvard could say, ‘No thanks, we have our 30 guys like you and they are more interesting and better.’

I think you should get into Harvard, but a serious question for you is why do you need an MBA when you already have what many would consider a post-MBA job? That is a question you might face in an admissions interview.

I am happy to eat my hat here but I don’t think you are getting into Stanford unless you have connections. You just don’t have the Stanford X factor, a powerful, politically correct extra? There is no victim history that will help you at Stanford. You’re the kind of guy that Stanford like to reject for just being too and Stanford is not in favor of standup comedy.

Your chances of getting into Harvard are good but not certain because you are competing with a lot of other high white performers who are very similar to you. Harvard has guys like you coming out of their pockets.

Wharton would love you and so would your other target schools. It’s just a matter of convincing them.

Write back and tell us your outcomes.

Ms. Oxford Bulge Bracket Player

NA GMAT
3.3 GPA
Undergraduate degree from Oxford University in philosophy, politics and economics
Work experience includes two years as an equity research analyst, promoted to associate a year early, at a bulge bracket American bank in London
“Now the number 2 in my team with two juniors reporting in to me. I am the analyst and associate representative for equity research – responsible for representing juniors to management and organising training and events”
Extracurricular involvement includes founding an online newspaper at Oxford where she also was president of the business society; currently active in a well-respected choir and a local taekwondo club; volunteer tutor for underprivileged students in a level English weekly
White, female

Odds of Success:

Harvard: 20% to 30%
Stanford: 10%
Wharton: 30%+

Sandy’s Analysis: What we got here is a white, female, Oxford grad with a 2:1 and one job as an equity analyst at a top firm (bulge bracket) which she seems to have excelled at. No GMAT/GRE is reported (please don’t analyze the HBSGURU contemplated stock offering with that degree of sloppiness) but let’s call it 730, to make the analysis centered (that is an average score for this type of applicant, and will highlight what I am about to say).

She says a 2:1 is similar to a U.S. 3.3, which sounds right.

A Wikipedia entry on the topic, British Undergraduate Degree Classification notes:

“The 2:1 is a minimum requirement for entry to many postgraduate courses in the UK
. . . .The percentage of candidates who achieve upper second-class honors can vary widely by degree subject, as well as by university.”

So what we got in Handicapping terms is

GPA: silver (and below average for target schools)

GMAT: silver (for her target schools, GSB, HBS and Wharton)

Work: gold (bulge bracket equity analyst with some great success, viz: ” . . . will have 3 years experience by the time I apply next year at a bulge bracket, top-ranked American bank in London. I was promoted to associate a year early and am now the number 2 in my team with two juniors reporting in to me.

There is an asterisk on the work analysis, however, because she has only had one job and the standard progression for hot-shots in IB is to start at a job like hers and move on to a private equity firm, etc. and apply from there instead of applying from the same old bank you joined after college. If any readers have success stories at HSW after applying from your third year at an IB, please share.

Anything else: “At Oxford I founded an online newspaper and was president of the business society . . . .”

Well, I’m impressed but this is not game-changing stuff, although if you greatly built out either of those or got them involved in do-good activites, that begins to sound better.

“Today I am actively involved in my Choir (a well respected almost semi professional group) and local taekwondo club. I also volunteer tutoring underprivileged students in a level English weekly.”

Many adcoms are Choir types and will like that, TKD is not going to break down any doors in the House of Adcom, though tutoring, especially amid your busy job, is a plus.

Results:

I don’t think you are getting into Stanford. There’s just too much silver and no X-factor of major impact helping victims or being a victim. Your extras are OK, but they’re not going to overcome the strong silvery parts of the app.

Even if they consider you in some esoteric bucket of IB kids who have not moved on to PE, there will be some other applicants with as much job success and higher grades and GMATs.

HBS analysis is pretty much the same, but odds go up, just based on more spaces, higher admit percent, etc.

Your HBS case is close enough, though. A real strong essay putting this story together, in terms of influences, overcoming adversity or success in starting that newspaper rf heading up the business society, plus choir could help, but that is hard to do, both as a matter of execution and more importantly, having a factual basis.

A real interesting question to me is, “How many non-URM Brit kids are there at HBS with a 2:1?” I got a feeling that is a real small number. Anyone???

Wharton takes and dings applicants like you, depending a good deal on GMAT!
I don’t think they will blink at a below average GPA and a below average GMAT, but in your case, the rest is strong, you play into their strengths in finance, and you seem to be employable.

Also, given the untrammled surface of how you present (Choir!), you seem like a sensible person without odd ideas about starting an app company that helps you bet on Cricket matches (although I am sure those exist,*** just an example). Hence, someone who may actually stick it out in finance and be employed at graduation and come back and hire Wharton grads.

Ahem, all that said, if your actual GMAT is not close to 730, well, keep taking it until it is.

*** Exists??? The app not only exists, there are many and even sites which rate them! bettingapps.com/best-cricket-betting-apps.

Mr. Bainie In India

730 GMAT (Q/50, V/39)
7.9/10 GPA
Undergraduate degree from the Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi
Work experience includes three years as a management consultant at Bain, with two promotions
“Focused work on consumer products industry (clients include world’s largest spirits company, India’s largest FMCG company). Currently leading the launch of a new drink at a beverage start-up (will return to Bain in Jan 2018). Will have 48 months of full time work ex at the time of joining the program”
Extracurricular involvement includes serving as general secretary at
IITD where he led a 200+ team to organize college fest and implemented academic reforms; teaching English at evening school for seven years, mentor as part of the IITD alumni association and at Bain; awarded best all-rounder of graduating class among 800+ students by Director, IITD; and debating with several podium finishes and theatre (acted/directed 10+ plays, including three with a pro theatre group)
Short-Term Goal: To return to Bain as a manager and gain experience in F&B industry
Long-Term Goal: to launch beverage brand that makes nutritious drinks for rural Indians
Recommenders are from Bain and are Wharton alumni
25-year-old Indian male

Odds of Success:

Harvard: 30%
Stanford: 10%
Wharton: 40%

Sandy’s Analysis: Grrrrrrrr, you are the Desi twin of the woman right above you.
OK but not great grades at a classy school, viz. IIT Delhi, CGPA: 7.9/10. She was 2:1 at Oxford.
A 730 GMAT (although in your case, the score is for real, and not something we plugged in because SHE was too lazy to include it)
A classy job but only ONE job, at a classy place, viz, “3 years of management consulting at Bain (joined straight after undergrad)
-Gained 2 promotions including an early one” (she did exactly the same thing at bulge bracket bank!).”

You do have one interesting item, a secondment to a start-up, “clients include world’s largest spirits company, India’s largest FMCG company—Currently leading launch of a new drink at a beverage start-up (will return to Bain in Jan 2018).”

I am not sure if working for “spirits” companies is a small plus to the sober (and leaden) mind of your average Adcom, but the alcohol business is certainly deeply enmeshed in all the elements that make the Fast Moving Consumer Goods space complex, interesting and fun. To wit, heavy advertising (often under restrictions), strong brand awareness, heavy government regs, a bit naughty, faddish consumer preferences, and positioning claims about quality and typical drinkers that are often made-up or subjective.

You also note:
1. General Secretary at IITD (led 200+ team to organize college fest, implemented academic reforms)

Small check.

2. Passionate about mentoring
-have been teaching English at evening school for 7 years
-Mentor as part of IITD alumni association and at Bain

3. Awarded best all-rounder of graduating class among 800+ students by Director, IITD

Can count

4. Others- Debating (several podium finishes) & theatre (acted/directed 10+ plays, including 3 with a pro theatre group)

Debating is almost a negative, H and S don’t like the type, especially if that is ALL you present as major extras. That is not the case with you. Theater is more positive because adcoms are often avid and star-struck culture consumers (or were in their pre-Mom days) who respect creativity and powerful acting.

Taken as a whole, that is actually an impressive set of extras for someone who is not the bonus point area of extras, to wit, having an impact beyond yourself (ahem that does not mean organizing the “college fest,” it means helping victims outside the university, and often outside the country).

Drumroll, please:

In the bucket of what is left after all the Indian IIT kids with 8-9+ GPAs and 750+ GMATS have been admitted, your success at Bain, your interesting work in the booze biz, and your experience concocting a new brew at a start-up, might make you, well at HBS, one of their few, ahem, deuxiemes cru admits. A lot may depend on how many Desi kids from MBB with bullet-proof gold credentials apply that year.

The fact that you have a consistent story about spirits/FMCG blah, blah is nice, but don’t let it deaden your essay by being the only thing, or even the most frequent thing, you say. They don’t really care. You’re a consultant, you’re going back to Bain, they got it, for better or worse. Your essay needs to make them somehow say, “hmmmmm, we like this guy, there is something here, just a bit of sparkle more than the average MBB applicant.”

I think Stanford is going to be hard. Your stats (for a male Desi) are in the far suburbs, and although Bain is a Tier 1 place, and you have a had a good run, you are in an ultra-competitive MBB bucket. Your cultured palette and several extras will not be enough to jump the stats shark.

Wharton goes for your story, properly executed.

Want some love beyond tough love. To wit, tortured love. Retake the GMAT and get 750+. That will make you rock solid at Wharton, real solid at HBS, and a more likely miracle case at Stanford, although still a miracle.

Mr. LGBTQ Biotech

730 GMAT
3.96 GPA
Undergraduate degree in cognitive science from a top 15 U.S. university in the south (think Vandy, Rice or Emory), graduated magna cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa
Work experience includes three years in management consulting in strategy & operations at Deloitte with a focus on Biotech/Life Sciences; two years as a student entrepreneur, focusing on developing a new revenue stream (marketing, operations, finance, etc.) for a student-run business in college
Extracurricular involvement includes leading recruiting efforts, specifically diversity recruiting, at local office and national level. (e.g. started a diversity recruiting pipeline to target/support underrepresented minorities/women/LGBTQ); leading
pro-bono consulting efforts outside of Deloitte (growth from case team member to executive board member responsible for client interaction/partnerships and current head); strong leadership accolades and positions in college in student government, residential college, and extracurricular clubs
Essay: Embracing my LGTBQ identity through different phases (raised in a modern society with draconian LGTBQ laws to moving to the UK/US for school to being in the military to being openly out in the workplace). Highlighted desire to return back to APAC to serve as a business leader not only in the workplace but also to kickstart a pipeline in the workplace to support young LGTBQ youths/adults)
Goal: To return to consulting with a strong desire to work in a retail B2C companies that are disrupting the retail landscape (think Warby Parker/Harry’s Grooming/AWAY). Highlighted international upbringing and prior experiences in growth strategy to engage in market entry (international expansion) for those firms.
26-year-old Asian who grew up in Internationally in the UK and APAC); LGBTQ; First generation college student

Odds of Success:

Harvard: 30%
Columbia: 40%
MIT: 30%
Berkeley: 40%
UCLA: 40%+

Sandy’s Analysis: Hey, I like you but let me give you some quick and tough love.

The strongest thread in the story above to an adcom is not the LGTBQ stories, although those will be respected.

The strongest thread is: “Cognitive Science Major . . . with 3 years Management Consulting – Deloitte (Strategy & Operations) – Focus on Biotech/Life Sciences.”

Not sure if you now hate all that “Biotech/Life Science” jive, or if you just thought that presenting yourself as someone interested in following your true passions was more powerful? In your case, that means returning to consulting “with a strong desire to work in a retail B2C companies that are disrupting the retail landscape (think Warby Parker/Harry’s Grooming/AWAY).”

Let me make this real clear: to an adcom someone with real, real solid academic and work experiences in Life Science is more attractive than someone with no retail experience who wants to, out of the blue, work in “disrupting the retail landscape (think Warby Parker/Harry’s Grooming/AWAY).”

The adcom will not be thinking “Harry’s Grooming/AWAY.”
The adcom will be thinking WTF????

And let me add, to that same adcom, your desire to be a leader in gay rights movement in both the USA and in APAC will be on a more firm footing as someone who has achieved success in Biotech vs. Retail.
Most of retail is already quite gay friendly. I personally don’t know how gay friendly Life Science/Biotech is, but I got a feeling there is more to be done there than at Warby Parker.

And remember, we are just talking about how to present yourself to the adcom. After you get in, no one cares. You would have a waaaay more powerful application doing it my way.
Someone interested in building out your undergraduate major and consulting experiences in Biotech/Life Sciences into a leadership career in that field, as a specialized consultant or (later) an executive officer to leading Life Science companies (just find out who the Warby Parker or Harry’s Grooming is of Life Science and say you want to be executive there). Friend, .7 seconds on Google, and you can talk the talk, to wit,

• Addressing the rising cost of conducting business in the life sciences
• Regulatory challenges in securing FDA approval for new products
• Convergence of technology & healthcare: Digital health revolution
• Economic role of drugs & devices in the spectrum of healthcare delivery

With a 3.9 from solid school like Vandy, a 730 GMAT, and the right story,
I’d say you got a real chance at HBS and MIT, and should be pretty, pretty strong at Columbia, Haas and UCLA. (Just convince those schools you want to come.)

1 comment:

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Monday, January 22, 2018

Handicapping Your Elite MBA Odds - Poets&Quants

White Male Hedge Funder

Ms. Oxford Bulge Bracket Player

Mr. Bainie In India

Mr. LGBTQ Biotech

Handicapping Your MBA Odds – The Entire Series

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